Banijay Rights’ Cathy Payne

Banijay Rights boasts a catalog of some 100,000 hours of programming, ranging from megahit unscripted formats to buzzy, high-end scripted series. CEO Cathy Payne works with in-house and third-party producers, helping them develop, finance and find the best homes for their shows, whether period, Nordic, crime, medical or family dramas or comedies. Banijay’s offerings are broad enough to satisfy the growing demand for content from linear channels and the increasing number of SVODs and AVODs, all looking for international and local programming.

WS: In the last two years, Covid-19 aside, have there been trends impacting the scripted business?
PAYNE: Putting the pandemic and production delays aside, the big trend was the expansion of both the global streaming platforms and domestic VOD offerings, which have a strong appetite for content. There aren’t many VOD platforms outside of Disney+ possessing a library that allows them to sustain themselves. No doubt Netflix and Amazon lead the way in opening up many international markets to non-local scripted fare; however, we have all the other new players in the market. When we would take out a British drama in the U.S. only eight years ago, the two dominant targets were BBC America and WGBH, now, of course, rebranded as GBH. Today, this has expanded to include the likes of Netflix, Amazon, EPIX, Peacock, Paramount+, Showtime, HBO Max and STARZ. There’s significant demand, and as all these services expand globally, it’s essential they have storytelling from the international market. They know that’s what the audience wants editorially in terms of both big international pieces and domestic stories. Editorial will, and I believe always should, be the champion of scheduling. That said, we are also seeing the increased discussion and rollout of regulation for global platforms regarding local content spend and other matters, so this could have an impact.

WS: What opportunities and challenges within scripted does the market hold for a company like Banijay Rights?
PAYNE: It is a world of opportunity, and that’s from the global streaming platforms and the domestic broadcasters. And in response to anyone who says that “all linear is dead,” that’s just not true. They are fighting back. They’ve expanded their catch-up offerings into fully fledged VOD platforms. And for those linear channels with an associated VOD platform, there is the ability to combine budgets and aim for bigger, ambitious pieces alongside their more domestic offerings. These platforms can compete by scheduling more domestic programming that appeals to that home market, scattered with the big, high-profile pieces. There’s a lot of opportunity for a company like us, especially one with a strong library of domestic and international products. However, linear pay TV is a very challenging environment that requires partnerships and exclusive product offerings—they must have content to compete.

Also, with scripted, you’ve got to finance these shows, and having in-house distribution is an advantage. We work with producers (both internal and third-party) from the very early days to shape the finance plan and identify what we believe will be the distribution deficit requirement.

WS: There’s something about scripted shows that can attract viewers and subscribers, especially when they draw attention.
PAYNE: Yes, but both scripted and unscripted series can be very buzzy and build good word of mouth. Scripted series more than ever need to captivate the viewer within the first minutes of that premiere episode.

WS: Would you give us some examples of financing models and how you work with producers?
PAYNE: [We work with] both internal and third-party producers. The distribution team is aware of their slates from the very early stages, when a project is usually at the idea stage. We’ll read pitches. We’ll discuss writers. Sometimes we get involved in options. Then we will look at what we think the financing plan will be, how we’ll take it to market and who the main targets are. For me, it’s always about the right editorial target—where the series has the best chance of success and returns for further seasons.

At Banijay, because we have no intention of launching our own direct-to-consumer offering—we are platform-agnostic—we’ll look at where we think is the best home for a story and get it to them early. Then we work on a finance plan—when and how we’ll finance the project. Our slate, in terms of investment, is always a mixed economic model. There will be some titles you will feel confident to stand in front of a large deficit from the outset and other projects where you do need to bring in a partner upfront to move ahead. Five years ago, my rule was that deficits were approximately 20 percent of the budget. They’re not that anymore. They are between 40 percent and 50-plus percent.

WS: In large part, does finding the best home for a project start with the financing?
PAYNE: Certain shows are very big and might be out of reach for some parties. But my golden rule, and it’s always paid off, is that if you find the right editorial fit for the story, the financing will come together. In a competitive situation, the channels and platforms will pitch to you why they are the right home for your series and how it will be marketed and positioned on their service. What’s also become more common is the very joined-up approach to marketing and series rollout between co-production partners who share day-and-date release.

WS: Are AVOD platforms still acquiring only library product, or have they begun commissioning as well?
PAYNE: The larger players do commission; a very active example is IMDb TV. Being part of Amazon, their editorial team is aligned with that of their parent company, and between them, they will decide which platform is best suited for the launch of a particular title.

Indeed, there are some very good examples of AVOD services associated with parent companies. In Australia, Nine has both their AVOD offering, 9Now, and their SVOD service, Stan. Meanwhile, ITV has ITV Hub and Hub+ alongside their joint venture with the BBC, BritBox. I think it’s hard for the AVODs to commission unless they’ve got an association with a linear channel or a parent company.

WS: New series attract a lot of attention, but does demand remain strong for popular library titles?
PAYNE: If you look at the shows we’re delivering next year, many of those are returning series: Peaky Blinders, Grantchester, The Good Karma Hospital and Beck, among many others. Moreover, within our library are several scripted multi-season franchises that continue to sell strongly cycle after cycle. We have been pleasantly surprised by the in-demand reaction we received from relaunching several such franchises this year, including Broadchurch.

WS: You mentioned non-English-language fare. Have you seen increased demand for that, too?
PAYNE: There’s huge demand, and again, you must give credit to the streaming platforms because they did open up many territories to the fabulous world of non-English. Traditionally genres such as crime have been very strong within the non-English successes. Nevertheless, it is great to see non-English comedy finding new audiences, too, with a [French] show like Call My Agent just one such example.

WS: RFDS: Royal Flying Doctor Service is doing very well. Years ago, you and I had a conversation about the popularity of Australian drama. Have the streamers helped that even more?
PAYNE: Australian drama has gone through various stages. Typically, the appeal of Australian scripted was that it featured a world not available internationally that was attractive overseas, such as open landscapes and big skies. Like in all markets, Australian drama covers series with more domestic focus to the premium level. And you’re right, the recently launched RFDS: Royal Flying Doctor Service has done very well with sales already confirmed, including PBS in the U.S. and Channel 4 in the U.K.

WS: How have scripted shows been faring in production since the pandemic?
PAYNE: All our premium scripted was delayed. You can’t believe how many drama series we will deliver between December 2021 and early 2023. We even managed to film SAS: Rogue Heroes in Morocco. Filming during this pandemic has been demanding, not only with the associated costs but also with the time that talent and crews have had to devote to creating bubbles, quarantining and often being away from home for longer periods. And then the constant testing on top of that.

WS: What new titles do you have coming?
PAYNE: We have quite a lot of non-English shows launching, mainly because so many of them have come from markets that initially weren’t as affected by production shutdowns. We have Germinal, which premiered at Series Mania. We’ve got shows coming from the Nordics, Italy and Israel, a wonderful, very rich non-English selection of content, including Detective Maria Kallio, My Ballerina, A Class Apart, Bonnie & Clyde, Hierro season two, The Store That Has It All, The Truth Will Out season two and the third run of Poquelin and De Beaumont.

WS: So, to recap, how do you see the state of scripted programming?
PAYNE: With scripted, the main message is that Covid will be around for a while. In premium drama, there is this necessity to work hand in hand with the producers to get programs funded. We really believe in a mixed economy. There will be programs that we might make that are fully commissioned by a large streamer. There will also be programs for which we will retain the IP—and retention of IP is very big for Banijay. But given the world we live in we never say never; you’ve got to go with the flow. In a mixed economy, we work with the international players, but we’re very, very big on supporting our individual domestic territory industries. And we’re lobbying hard to save Channel 4 from privatization!