Exclusive Interview: Lionsgate’s Jim Packer

PREMIUM: Jim Packer, the president of worldwide television and digital distribution at Lionsgate, talks to World Screen about how SVODs and streaming services have changed the distribution business.

WS: How have SVODs and streaming services changed the distribution business?
PACKER: I’ve always taken the approach that you need to look at every platform, analyze it and make sure there is a place for your content there. If there is, you need to take it early. So we always try to move quickly and early. A recent example would be Vudu. We were one of the first two studios to do a deal with Vudu’s AVOD service. We partnered with Tubi TV very early on for their AVOD service because we believed that the ad-supported business was going to continue to grow and for some parts of our content—not the higher-end, but the middle-range content—it would be important to monetize it everywhere and make sure we were taking advantage of these platforms. Sure enough, with everyone spending time on Netflix and Amazon where there are no ads, the ad rates and CPMs for advertiser-supported content continue to go up. A few months ago, Pluto was sold. That’s an interesting service that wasn’t here ten years ago and it got some $300 million from Viacom. As a company with Lionsgate’s breadth and depth, we need to find and be on every platform that makes sense.

WS: How do you give a show the best exposure?
PACKER: Kevin Beggs [chairman of Lionsgate’s Television Group] and my team are very close to the artists and creators, and we get a sense of what their content is all about. Then we try to find a network or platform that will come in not just for one season because you have to look at these deals as multi-season commitments. You want somebody who will take the show, brand it and make it successful, and will also embrace season two, season three and season four. We also try to get at least two [bidders], because it’s always better to have a little bit of competition. We always do everything we can to make sure the content fits the platform and that we get as many platforms interested as makes sense, so we get a competitive situation.

WS: Lionsgate has been one of the pioneers of innovative financing and distribution models. Give us some examples of how you are financing shows today.
PACKER: It’s really about finding the right financial structure for each partnership. We don’t look at things traditionally. [Take] Manhunt, an excellent show. It was picked up by Discovery and by Netflix globally. It’s a well-done procedural and, when Discovery moved away from scripted programming, we had to make a choice. This is where Kevin and I talk all the time. We didn’t say it’s over. We said, what else can we do? This show has more seasons in it; there are more stories to be told. We looked at it and Charter Communications came to mind. We had a conversation with them and, ultimately, we did move it to that platform. We’re taking advantage of very creative ways of taking things to market.

Another show that we are selling is Bojack Horseman. I saw a number of episodes and thought the show was really well written. What was interesting about it is that it had all the dubs done, because if you sell something to Netflix, you have to make dubs for many countries. [With Bojack Horseman] I didn’t have to spend money on the dubs, they were already done, so the dubs became a sales tool. When we showed the product to various broadcasters, we could show them the dubbed version. And yes, it has Netflix as a non-exclusive home, but Netflix is not as well penetrated internationally as it is in the U.S., so there are certain countries that we thought would be an opportunity, and sure enough, Bojack Horsemanhas been an excellent show for us.

WS: In what ways do you and your team work with Kevin and his?
PACKER: We work together all the time. When they are in the market and have a bidding war going for projects or pilots or straight-to-series, he and I talk about, Where is the right platform? What will be the best rights profile? We start there and go all the way through the production, including casting. Kevin is one of the more open executives. He’ll call and say, “We have two or three different people we could place in this role, what’s the right person for international?” It doesn’t always work out, but he welcomes that input. That is invaluable right now, especially with so many shows in the marketplace. Also with acquisitions; I acquire shows just for my international group, and a lot of times I will take the show to Kevin’s group and get feedback on scripts, casting, and he’ll treat it like it’s his own, even though I’m acquiring. I don’t buy ten shows. I only buy one or two. I’m selective and I want every bit of feedback I can get and to have him as a resource is perfect.

WS: Lionsgate now owns Starz. What added distribution opportunities do Starz shows offer you?
PACKER: It’s a lot more than distribution opportunities; it’s truly a unique collaboration between Starz and Lionsgate right now. When [our collaboration] first started, it was focused on distribution. When we first came together, for example, Powerhad not been licensed in the marketplace and we were able to find the perfect partner in Hulu. It ended up being a big financial benefit for Starz that they probably hadn’t planned on. And it worked well for Hulu because they got a show that was incredibly spot-on for an audience they were trying to grow. [We also sold] Ash vs Evil Deadto Netflix. Then, it merged into more of a partnership. I talk to [Starz COO] Jeff Hirsch all the time. Starz [has started its] international launch. They are in a number of countries now and a lot of the Lionsgate library is being put to work. The Starz originals are driving, but it’s the Lionsgate content that is providing that glue that makes it a real service. That’s a good example of us partnering together.

[I mentioned] acquisitions. I talk to them all the time. If I can acquire a show that makes sense for Starz in a few countries, they’ll take the first position and we’ll sell the rest of the world. We are all on the same page trying to grow that brand internationally.

WS: Viewers have so much choice that it’s becoming hard to find shows. How much more complicated is marketing becoming?
PACKER: We’re involved in more marketing decisions and dynamics now than we ever have been. Because of all the content, it’s a little harder to get noticed, even for the networks. Ten years ago, you used to sell a show to a network, and whether you were selling second cycle or first cycle, it was their job to market. You sat back, crossed your fingers and hoped the show was well received. Now, you have to go in and assist. We used a Lionsgate 360-degree approach on Step Up: High Water. We had YouTube virtual reality dance content and we used three or four other different angles to promote that show. When we launched the film Escape Plan 3, we got Escape Plan, the film it was based on, and put it on SYFY right at the launch of Escape Plan 3. We partnered with them to make sure that movie was running at the same time. To your point, how do you stumble into that brand? You have to have it on at the time when viewers can discover it. We try to make sure there are access points. We have hundreds of Facebook pages with millions of views and those are not just to support those shows, they are also to support new launches. We have a whole social team [that] markets product for those particular pages, but you want to use that collective fan base to introduce them to new things organically. We have to be mindful not to force-feed marketing down particular channels because people don’t like that. But if it’s organic and very natural to market something, and you think a fan would like to see it, that’s your job, to make sure you give fans the chance to see it.

WS: There is so much focus on series, but movies are a big part of what you do, too.
PACKER: It’s a very big part and it’s become a bigger part internationally. Lionsgate tends to have an all-rights profile when we sell our movies and they sell for anywhere from 10 to 20 years. The company has been around since 2000, so a lot of those movies are coming back into our portfolio, franchises like The Twilight Sagaand Hunger Gamesthat were licensed years ago, which is a great opportunity. And domestically, our movie business is starting to kick in. Joe Drake has done an amazing job taking the movie studio, retooling it and figuring out the right focus. We have Hellboycoming out in April. We have John Wick 3 in May. And—this is where marketing is changing—they made a brilliant move where they said to the John Wick fans, if you text us, we will send you the trailer one hour before we debut the trailer everywhere else. Imagine how many phone numbers we got to market the John Wick 3franchise when it comes out. You really know who the fans are if they send you a text and want to see the trailer an hour early. If you harness technology, especially for our movie business, it’s going to be an interesting way to market products because you can’t emphasize enough what that marketing spend toward a movie means. It makes it more of an asset, compared to launching a movie without that spend, which is another way to do it if you are on a platform. We need that spend to make it a real franchise.