John de Mol

This interview originally appeared in the MIPCOM 2013 issues of TV Formats and World Screen.

On the heels of the success of The Voice, which has been produced in more than 50 countries (and with finished-program sales to some 160 markets), John de Mol and his team at Talpa Media Group, the company he founded in 2005, are busy developing a slate of new shows. In fact, Talpa will launch six new formats this fall, and has a big game show and reality show in development. Besides focusing on constant innovative creativity, de Mol is also looking to set up more production entities around the world and to continue to roll out scripted formats.

WS: Tell us about the developments at Talpa in the U.S.
DE MOL: Talpa’s first fully owned subsidiary is in the U.S. We have a full operation up and running at the moment, which is expanding very fast. We have a lot of projects in the pipeline with different broadcasters. We are in production with different shows right now. So the U.S., as the number one television market in the world, was the first country we picked to create a Talpa subsidiary. In the rest of the world, at least in the most important markets, up to now we have chosen a model where we pick the right production companies and partners per territory and create joint ventures, as we did with Shine in France and Australia. But we are growing so fast and we have such a flow of new content that we are seriously considering, at least in the big markets in the world, setting up wholly owned Talpa subsidiaries.

WS: I remember you telling me a few years ago, when you were first looking to expand, that there weren’t that many production companies available that could be acquired. Now you’re looking at setting up your own companies.
DE MOL: Yes, because we already have a lot of shows running in those countries. So it’s less difficult to find people if you already have production than to have no production and start from zero. I’m talking about the main countries in the world, big countries that have big financial input.

WS: Do you have plans to expand Talpa Fiction into other markets or are you keeping it in the Netherlands for now?
DE MOL: We do intend to expand our scripted formats. We have developed Talpa Fiction with the same philosophy as we developed nonfiction. We think and create in terms of formats. One good example already on our list is Viper’s Nest, which has been sold to a number of countries. Our second big chance is with a show that has just finished its first season in Holland and is now in production for its second season. It belongs to a genre that I call dramedy, it’s fiction with a smile, and the show is called Divorce. It is about three divorced men who, by circumstance, end up living in the same house.

WS: That would lend itself to comedy and drama, wouldn’t it!
DE MOL: Absolutely. It is such a clever subject and such a universal, recognizable situation that when you explain the format, everybody starts smiling after 20 seconds!

WS: When looking for producers, writers and creators, does the fiction division require a different skill set from your game shows and reality shows?
DE MOL: Yes, that is why Talpa Fiction is a separate department inside Talpa Media. We started two years ago by hiring the most successful and best director we have in Holland and because of her a lot of talent has followed, so I think we got off to a very good start.

WS: Are broadcasters asking for scripted formats as well as unscripted?
DE MOL: Yes, because every broadcaster is interested in proven formats and shows. When buyers hear that Divorce was such a huge success in Holland, immediately it makes everyone sit up in their chair to watch it.

WS: Holland continues to be a main incubator of great ideas. What is it about that market? Or is it Talpa itself that is unique?
DE MOL: The fact that Holland is seen as such a strong development country, in all modesty, without being arrogant, I can take some credit for that, first of all with Endemol and now with Talpa! There are two reasons. One of them is that Talpa is a Dutch company with a philosophy that is different from most of the other production companies. We are not a production company, we are a creative content-development company and once we have created a good format we have the people in-house who can produce it—but that is a consequence of the fact that we have created a good format.

We find ourselves in a situation that is basically the dream of every content-development company in the world: we have the right people in-house to create content. I have a fantastic team at the moment; after five years we have struck a balance with the right people with different backgrounds.

Second, we have access to TV screens in Holland. We have ownership stakes in three big TV stations in Holland, SBS6, NET5 and Veronica. This gives us the chance to put our ideas on the screen. Probably 50 percent of our success is due to that, because a lot of people have good ideas but they have the problem that they can’t get them to the screen.

I’ll give you an example. I was in L.A. from September 22 to 29 and we invited creatives from across America to come and pitch us ideas. We told them that working with us is probably much faster than trying to do it on their own in the States because if we think of an idea, we can go back to Holland, produce the show and it will be on air in eight months. Then we bring it back to the States as a proven success.

WS: Do creators find a welcoming environment at Talpa? Do you do everything possible to get their creative juices flowing, so to speak?
DE MOL: Absolutely, this is the DNA of Talpa, creating new ideas, finding new boundaries and surpassing them. And that is what we are doing all day with a fantastic team of people. I am heading the team on a day-to-day basis. I have organized Talpa so I can spend 90 percent of my time and energy on development, production, making pilots and selling shows and not running a company because I have very good managers to take care of that.

WS: Since you do own a stake in Endemol, what kind of involvement do you have with that business?
DE MOL: None. This is an interest I have indirectly through Dasym Investment Strategies, the company that is taking care of my investments. I have between 9- and 10-percent ownership in Endemol, but it is 100 percent taken care of by the investment company. I am spending 80 hours a week on Talpa and I am not interfering in any way with Endemol.

WS: Are you looking to make other strategic investments in media?
DE MOL: Yes, but because I have an investment company that is looking for opportunities, that is not on my agenda on a daily basis. I talk to my investment team one hour once a week and even less if nothing interesting is happening! I’m doing the things I like and do best, which is creating new ideas and formats and producing them, and they do the things they do best, which is watching the screens and telling me what they think we should do and where we should invest.

WS: And how do you keep your creativity at such a high level?
DE MOL: Good question. I don’t know. I still find myself in a place where work doesn’t cost me any energy; it’s fun. Every day I wake up and I want to start working because I have a great team of young people. We are successful, which makes it a lot easier as well. We have a lot of shows coming on, it’s just fun. It feels more like a hobby than a job.

WS: What growth opportunities do you see for the company?
DE MOL: The growth will come from keeping up the stream of successful formats and expanding on that. If every few years, you do a show of the size and quality of The Voice, you grow stunningly quickly because in ten years you have five shows in 50 countries. We have a great sales team and we have successful shows. We have the organization that can roll them out very quickly. The growth should come from more creativity and even better ideas than we have had so far, pushing the limits, and in the digital area there are some interesting developments that I think can contribute to the growth of Talpa.

WS: Do you start thinking of digital and second-screen opportunities during the development process, or does the show idea come first and the digital applications later?
DE MOL: We think of digital at the very early stages. In the last five years, at least in my experience, digital opportunities were seen as extensions of programs. But that has changed due to the importance of the lasting connection you want to create with the viewers, not only as a producer and a broadcaster but also given the changing advertising business models and how they contribute to shows. We see many opportunities in the digital area for connected formats, so now our content department and our digital team are joining forces and working at the same time on the development of new ideas.

On the other hand, I want to be clear that we are not automatically creating digital applications for our formats. They have to make sense. They have to be logical extensions and have to be of use to the viewer or the user. Sometimes you see examples of digital applications and you can’t help but ask, what is the use if it doesn’t strengthen the format or strengthen the connection with the viewer in any way? So you have to be careful that you’re not doing it just for the sake of doing it.

WS: Are you seeing some instances where digital applications can drive viewers back to the show on the linear channel?
DE MOL: Absolutely. On The Voice we have plenty of those examples. The HomeCoach app, which is renewed every year with new elements, is creating a huge connection with viewers. If you play the HomeCoach app, you are absolutely going to watch the show. A new Talpa game show that launched in Holland earlier this year, called What Do I Know?!, has an app that has been downloaded 1.2 million times, and that is quite a number for a country with some 16 million people. Again, all those applications make sense because they have clear connections to the shows and offer clear added value to a viewer’s experience.

WS: Is digital one of the growth areas at Talpa Media?
DE MOL: We definitely see digital development as an opportunity, even on the creative side. Things that we have been discussing for ten years are now possible thanks to developments in technology. So digital also gives you extra room to maneuver creatively and come up with new ideas.

WS: Since shows and creativity are at the heart of what you do, are there upcoming shows or significant deals that you would like to mention?
DE MOL: Yes and yes! There are upcoming shows and there are significant deals. The timing is a little bit difficult right now to announce anything in detail. What I can tell you is that we will launch at least six new formats in the fall. For the first half of next year, we have a big new game show in development with an app and second-screen application, so all the viewers at home can play along. And we are working on a very, very big new and groundbreaking reality show.

WS: Did you expect The Voice to be as successful as it is and sell in so many markets?
DE MOL: It is in the maximum number of markets where you can sell a show the size of The Voice. There are original productions of the format now in more than 50 countries, and if you look at sales of the finished show, I think it’s on air in more than 160 countries—that is probably as far as you can go in selling a show! Also, every season we look carefully at whether we can come up with elements that can improve the show and give it something fresh. On the other hand, with a huge success like The Voice, you also have to be careful not to change just for the sake of change. The viewer does not get fed up with the show as fast as the makers of it do. We are working on it every day, but the viewer is watching it once a week, so we have to be careful with making changes. But with small, fresh elements, we have tried to come up with little surprises without taking away the basic elements that work so well. We hope they keep viewers interested in The Voice for a long time.

WS: Is your team also looking at second-screen applications?
DE MOL: Yes, but they have to provide something extra and not be a burden. A second-screen experience has to be fun to make watching the show even more fun. After the show has aired, the second screen creates a lasting relationship with the viewer, while the broadcast only lasted one or two hours.