{"id":26806,"date":"2024-01-31T14:02:18","date_gmt":"2024-01-31T19:02:18","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/worldscreen.com\/tvkids\/ip-owners-talk-funding-models\/"},"modified":"2024-01-31T15:25:59","modified_gmt":"2024-01-31T20:25:59","slug":"ip-owners-talk-funding-models","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/worldscreen.com\/tvkids\/ip-owners-talk-funding-models\/","title":{"rendered":"IP Owners Talk Funding Models"},"content":{"rendered":"

APC Kids\u2019 Lionel Marty, Guru Studio\u2019s Frank Falcone, Thunderbird Entertainment\u2019s Richard Goldsmith and Sixteen South\u2019s Alexandros van Blanken shared their perspectives on evolving funding models at the TV Kids Festival.<\/p>\n

The Money Matters session, moderated by TV Kids<\/em>\u2019 Anna Carugati, can be viewed in its entirety here<\/a>. It featured Marty, managing director and founder at APC Kids; Falcone, president and executive creative director at Guru Studio; Goldsmith, president of global distribution and consumer products at Atomic Cartoons and Thunderbird Entertainment; and van Blanken, general manager of Sixteen South Rights, discussing how funding models are adapting and shifting.<\/p>\n

\u201cIt\u2019s a very cautious landscape,\u201d Falcone said. \u201cPeople are continually looking for known brands, something that brings an audience. The industry is in a state of decline at the moment. Some of the linear channels are losing audience share. Anything that brings them an audience and brings them a brand that has awareness in the market is attractive. There are some risks happening, but there\u2019s a general climate of conservative investing in known brands.\u201d<\/p>\n

Marty said that streamers, too, are focusing on known IP, but there are opportunities to introduce new brands via linear broadcasters. \u201cThere is still a chance to finance original IPs, although in a fragmented media space, it\u2019s easier for them to broadcast and introduce known properties. But more chances are there with linear broadcasters compared to streamers.\u201d<\/p>\n

Goldsmith is also finding that the openness to new ideas depends on the market. \u201cFrance, the U.K., Germany, Australia, they\u2019re much more open. The U.S. and the global companies are focused on these big brands and have much more of a narrow focus. But across the board, we feel that people are looking for the same things. It\u2019s co-viewing. It\u2019s well-known brands. It\u2019s preschool and bridge, which could be up to age 9. Not much interest in content over 9. And everybody seems to be looking for a great 6-to-12 comedy.\u201d<\/p>\n

\u201cWe often forget that we\u2019re in the attention economy, not in the kids\u2019 TV business,\u201d Falcone observed. \u201cWe\u2019re chasing their attention. TV only can go so far with getting their attention\u2014it has to be really beloved properties. Breaking new shows is increasingly challenging when you don\u2019t have that immediate love and you have to build it up. It takes years to get to a point where people love their characters. Bluey<\/em> came out of the pandemic with a great opportunity to have co-viewing with families and the right show at the right time. It almost created the co-viewing situation that we need now.\u201d<\/p>\n

Van Blanken also stressed the demand for co-viewing shows, character-driven stories and known IP. \u201cBut especially here in Europe, I find that public-service broadcasting is still very much willing to take a bit more of a risk, albeit those license fees have come down significantly. We\u2019re still able to tell those stories and come up with new ideas.\u201d<\/p>\n

The global streamers reevaluating their kids\u2019 content expenditure has also contributed to the unease in the market. \u201cA lot of them are just on hold,\u201d Goldsmith said. \u201cWe don\u2019t really know what their commitment is going to be to kids\u2019 content. So that is a huge, huge black hole.\u201d<\/p>\n

Falcone also stressed the importance of taking into account all touchpoints for kids\u2014not just the ones powered by technology. \u201cI don\u2019t know if storytelling happens in Roblox. Brand development happens in places like Roblox, but storytelling still comes from the page. It comes from characters in sequence, across several pages. We have to think about linear storytelling as our focus if we\u2019re doing storytelling for kids. We don\u2019t want to get too caught up in the digital side of things. It\u2019s a way to reach kids but not necessarily a way to develop content.\u201d<\/p>\n

The conversation then moved to the role of exclusivity today. \u201cThe streamers know that they want to have awareness, and that means sometimes sharing exclusivity or having non-exclusive rights with other broadcasters or other platforms, AVOD, YouTube, because they know that it can bring some awareness for the shows they will market,\u201d Marty said.<\/p>\n

\u201cIt has been a major shift in the dialogue that we\u2019ve been having,\u201d Goldsmith added. \u201cStreamers particularly, or worldwide linear companies that traditionally wanted all rights, are now coming back and saying, Well, if you are getting some funding from a territory or two, we can share rights in those markets. We haven\u2019t had that conversation in years. There are lots of discussions now about co-funding series. We\u2019re doing deals now where we\u2019re both putting up money and we\u2019re sharing rights. The time of the windows are also being loosened up. That is one of the silver linings of the situation now.\u201d<\/p>\n

That approach does share some \u201ccomplexity in deal-making,\u201d Falcone observed. \u201cWhen you\u2019re constructing deals with many potential windows and financiers, the recipe becomes complex. And sometimes deals lose momentum in this process. So, we really are reliant on our legal and business affairs teams to pull together tight, interesting deals quickly because, as you know, time kills all deals. We want to be quick about how we pull together our shows. Windows of opportunity can be missed if we\u2019re not moving quickly.\u201d<\/p>\n

Van Blanken added: \u201cDropping the need for exclusivity also has meant some of the deals are for less payment or no payment at all, which is kind of a rev-share model, which becomes increasingly difficult and a challenge when you\u2019re having a conversation and you\u2019re trying to fund a show or trying to at least back some of your investment. Especially when it comes to significant territories. I agree with Richard, it is a bit of a silver lining, but it\u2019s also effectively decreasing the financial burden on that licensee. So, it\u2019s a balancing act.\u201d<\/p>\n

L&M partners are partial to shows that are exposed in multiple places, Goldsmith said. \u201cFor the first time in my career, the people that we make substantial revenues from are indicating to us that they no longer really believe that being on a big streamer or big linear network is the best route. So, with Mittens & Pants<\/em>, we\u2019ve launched it everywhere. It\u2019ll go on at least ten AVOD platforms in the U.S., YouTube, social media. That is a seismic shift. It\u2019s great for building brands, great for monetizing brands, not so great for revenues up front that we\u2019re now not getting from that big streamer or that big linear network.\u201d<\/p>\n

The conversation then moved to financing models. Partnerships are more important than ever. \u201cOur previous model used to be, you get a commission, maybe a second broadcaster and make it all in-house as a studio,\u201d van Blanken said. \u201cThat financing model has sort of gone out the window for us. We\u2019re looking for that creative partnership to access tax credits and funding from other countries. Five or six years ago, finance plans were never this complicated. What\u2019s beautiful about it is that it relies on creative partnership as well. The financing models are evolving, and having to share rights, share IP and accessing tax credits and finances in other countries is becoming imperative for us as a studio.\u201d<\/p>\n

Goldsmith referenced Canada\u2019s strong funding system, which allows Thunderbird to partner with other production and distribution companies around the world. \u201cCanada has more co-production treaties than anyone. Partnering with another country that has subsidies and tax credits like we do makes a lot of sense.\u201d<\/p>\n

Carugati asked the panelists about the role that private equity is playing in kids\u2019 content financing. \u201cWith the stall in the industry and the delayed response to commissioning new shows, their cycle for return on investment is shorter than the wait time that our industry might be facing on a return to spending,\u201d Falcone said. \u201cSince we\u2019re in an environment where the broadcasters and the platforms don\u2019t seem to have control of an audience, some of that soft money is looking to just make the show and put it out there, rather than putting it in the hands of a trusted channel partner that commands an audience. You can\u2019t command kids anymore; they do what they want to do. They go where they want to go. You hope to find them where they are, and you put the show in as many places as they could possibly find it. There are really good opportunities in working with that. But it comes with issues\u2014a lack of understanding of our business and the kind of returns that are expected from some of that money. We\u2019re not a high-margin business unless you hit it big with a kids\u2019 brand. And that\u2019s an exception, not an expectation.\u201d<\/p>\n

\u201cPrivate-equity acquisitions have slowed down in the media business,\u201d Goldsmith added. \u201cThat said, private-equity firms are still interested in kids\u2019 entertainment companies. But they have to be profitable and they have to be mature businesses. They\u2019re no longer interested in taking risks. It\u2019s all about the numbers and proven management teams and proven brands.\u201d<\/p>\n

The conversation then moved to FAST and AVOD. \u201cWe\u2019ve seen great results on brands that we succeeded in establishing on a global level,\u201d Marty said said of the AVOD space. \u201cWe see significant amounts of revenues coming from AVOD, although it has dropped a little bit from what it used to be. It\u2019s still a very solid and recurrent stream of revenues. It is on established brands. On FAST, the kids\u2019 sector is interesting, but it\u2019s not their priority right now.\u201d<\/p>\n

Guru launched a FAST service for True and the Rainbow Kingdom<\/em> with Future Today. \u201cThere are selective brands that are able to get into that universe and find an audience,\u201d Falcone said. \u201cThe challenge that I see is it\u2019s another issue of discoverability. When everybody launches a FAST channel for their brands, everyone\u2019s dropping a bit of water into the ocean. It\u2019s the App Store all over again. How do you find that FAST channel? How does it bubble to the top? That\u2019s the real challenge: discoverability and placement and support from those platforms. It\u2019s not going to happen overnight. And I don\u2019t know how big a piece of our business it will be. I don\u2019t see any drivers in the kids\u2019 business in the FAST channel universe right now. But there\u2019s money to be made and there\u2019s an opportunity. And certainly, people should be looking at how to monetize their content on FAST channels.\u201d<\/p>\n

Goldsmith agreed with Falcone\u2019s assessment of the FAST space. On AVOD, he said, \u201cIt\u2019s no secret that all linear channels are eroding and that the kids\u2019 channels have eroded much quicker than the adult channels and that the money is slowly going from the big linear channels to all of these AVOD channels. I think that that is where the future is. That said, it\u2019s going to take time to monetize. Right now, it\u2019s a rev-share model. When you ask a platform, How much am I going to make on my show?, the answer is, Well, people on our platform make quarterly from $0 to $1 million. If you don\u2019t have a big hit on AVOD that kids already know, you\u2019re not going to make a lot of money on it. Eventually, AVOD will go to a licensed model. Right now, we\u2019re investing heavily in content for AVOD because we do believe that it\u2019s the future.\u201d<\/p>\n

The panelists then weighed in on opportunities in the metaverse. \u201cIt\u2019s a place for brands to showcase what they\u2019re doing, to engage in a brand,\u201d Falcone said. “It\u2019s like a virtual park experience. It\u2019s certainly something that we in the kids\u2019 business should consider once we have a brand and engagement and an audience. Before that, I don\u2019t see a lot of it coming back the other way. I don\u2019t see a lot of unique properties launching in that ecosystem that can migrate over to television.\u201d<\/p>\n

On how they view the market going forward, the panelists all remain optimistic that good content will always find a way to cut through and make an impact. \u201cThere\u2019s still a huge demand for content and for great storytelling,\u201d Goldsmith said. \u201cWith the streaming model being blown up and that huge amount of money that is now gone, there\u2019s no doubt that it\u2019s going to affect the industry. But those of us that make great content will continue to make great content.\u201d<\/p>\n

He added, \u201cAs a company, to play in this business in today\u2019s day and age, you need to have money to deficit finance your productions. You need to have money to operate YouTube channels and social media so that you can promote them. And you need to have a robust consumer products operation to monetize them. And that\u2019s our business model for kids\u2019 content. Yes, occasionally you\u2019ll sell a show that won\u2019t have consumer products attached to it. But the vast majority of what is successful is driven by those revenues. That\u2019s important to keep in mind for the future.\u201d<\/p>\n

\u201cI feel really positive about what we do,\u201d van Blanken said. \u201cIt\u2019s become a lot more challenging. There are a lot of question marks in our industry. But we just have to keep on doing what we\u2019re doing because our show might be some 5-year-old\u2019s or 4-year-old\u2019s or 9-year-old\u2019s favorite thing in the world that they love doing and watching and playing.\u201d<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

APC Kids\u2019 Lionel Marty, Guru Studio\u2019s Frank Falcone, Thunderbird Entertainment\u2019s Richard Goldsmith and Sixteen South\u2019s Alexandros van Blanken shared their perspectives on evolving funding models at the TV Kids Festival.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":290,"featured_media":26807,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"pmpro_default_level":0,"footnotes":""},"categories":[21],"tags":[8961,1894,3880,1945,4725,1691,1201,3079,5723],"class_list":["post-26806","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","","category-top-stories","tag-alexandros-van-blanken","tag-apc-kids","tag-frank-falcone","tag-guru-studio","tag-lionel-marty","tag-richard-goldsmith","tag-sixteen-south","tag-thunderbird-entertainment","tag-tv-kids-festival","pmpro-has-access"],"yoast_head":"\nIP Owners Talk Funding Models - TVKIDS<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/worldscreen.com\/tvkids\/ip-owners-talk-funding-models\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"IP Owners Talk Funding Models - TVKIDS\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"APC Kids\u2019 Lionel Marty, Guru Studio\u2019s Frank Falcone, Thunderbird Entertainment\u2019s Richard Goldsmith and Sixteen South\u2019s Alexandros van Blanken shared their perspectives on evolving funding models at the TV Kids Festival.\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/worldscreen.com\/tvkids\/ip-owners-talk-funding-models\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"TVKIDS\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2024-01-31T19:02:18+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2024-01-31T20:25:59+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/worldscreen.com\/tvkids\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/9\/2017\/07\/2024-01-31-Funding.jpg\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:width\" content=\"640\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:height\" content=\"394\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:type\" content=\"image\/jpeg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Mansha Daswani\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Mansha Daswani\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"10 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/worldscreen.com\/tvkids\/ip-owners-talk-funding-models\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/worldscreen.com\/tvkids\/ip-owners-talk-funding-models\/\",\"name\":\"IP Owners Talk Funding Models - TVKIDS\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/worldscreen.com\/tvkids\/#website\"},\"datePublished\":\"2024-01-31T19:02:18+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2024-01-31T20:25:59+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/worldscreen.com\/tvkids\/#\/schema\/person\/83da304c8bad8bfdb3edd7eb47cfe5ad\"},\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/worldscreen.com\/tvkids\/ip-owners-talk-funding-models\/#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/worldscreen.com\/tvkids\/ip-owners-talk-funding-models\/\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/worldscreen.com\/tvkids\/ip-owners-talk-funding-models\/#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\/\/worldscreen.com\/tvkids\/\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"IP Owners Talk Funding Models\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/worldscreen.com\/tvkids\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/worldscreen.com\/tvkids\/\",\"name\":\"TVKIDS\",\"description\":\"\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\/\/worldscreen.com\/tvkids\/?s={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":\"required name=search_term_string\"}],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"Person\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/worldscreen.com\/tvkids\/#\/schema\/person\/83da304c8bad8bfdb3edd7eb47cfe5ad\",\"name\":\"Mansha Daswani\",\"description\":\"Mansha Daswani is the editor-in-chief and associate publisher of World Screen. 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