{"id":10651,"date":"2018-10-23T14:41:11","date_gmt":"2018-10-23T18:41:11","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/dev2.worldscreen.com\/tvdrama\/jorg-winger\/"},"modified":"2019-01-23T14:46:09","modified_gmt":"2019-01-23T19:46:09","slug":"jorg-winger","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/worldscreen.com\/tvdrama\/jorg-winger\/","title":{"rendered":"J\u00f6rg Winger"},"content":{"rendered":"

Germany has a long tradition of TV drama series. The public broadcasters ARD and ZDF started airing procedural cop shows in the 1970s. Knowing how popular the genre was with viewers, commercial broadcasters, like RTL, have followed suit. J\u00f6rg Winger, the managing director of UFA Fiction, has changed the way crime series are produced and introduced audiences to continuing story arcs across episodes. With his wife, Anna Winger, he created Deutschland 83<\/em> and then Deutschland 86<\/em>, both set during the Cold War with real-life events serving as a backdrop to the drama. Winger jumped forward in time with Hackerville<\/em>, which examines today\u2019s world of computer hackers.<\/p>\n

WS:<\/strong> What was your first show and, at that time, what was the role of the writer?
\nWINGER:<\/strong> SOKO Leipzig<\/em> premiered in January 2001, in the famous ZDF Friday-night crime slot. When I came in, it was at a time when the writer had no say. It was all about the broadcaster\u2019s commissioning editor and the director. The director was really in charge. Even the producer was still a disputed position. I came in as a writer and a producer in the beginning, when it was still considered a conflict of interest to be a producer and writer. So rewrites or writing expositions were considered a conflict of interest. But before I started this job, I asked some friends in New York how you run a TV show, because I had never done it. They said you do this and this and this. I thought, OK, I\u2019ll try that. I was in Leipzig, pretty far away from the centers of power, so it was possible, together with the wonderful Matthias Pfeifer, from ZDF, to do a show that was not like an American series but that worked more in that model. That was unusual at the time.<\/p>\n

WS:<\/strong> Were there lessons learned that you transferred to Deutschland 83<\/em>?
\nWINGER:<\/strong> Absolutely, especially since we started SOKO Leipzig<\/em> as a purely self-contained drama procedural. The protagonists had no memories, nor dreams or desires for their personal lives. We evolved the show slowly, and that was another real paradigm shift. It was not easy to convince people, because broadcasters loved the freedom of airing episodes out of sequence. They argued, but if we have a serialized arc, we will not be able to do what we want. We said, yes, but the audience will become attached to the show if we have more fully developed characters. Then, and that was a real blessing, our main female actress got pregnant. So we started writing a storyline for her that would not allow switching episodes around. While she was interrogating the prime suspect, we had her threatening to deliver the baby if he didn\u2019t confess! Everybody saw that continuing story arcs work well and we expanded that. Of course, I learned a lot not only about plot points and storytelling but also about the craft and effects of serializing. We had four-episode arcs, eight-episode arcs, and that was the best training ground.<\/p>\n

WS:<\/strong> How did you get involved in Deutschland 83<\/em>?
\nWINGER:<\/strong> Anna had written three or four episodes of SOKO Leipzig<\/em>, and before that she had written a novel. At the time, we were watching a lot of TV together and we were frustrated with the German insistence on cops and crime dramas. We watched Borgen<\/em> together and decided to develop a show that was political, aspirational and had something to say. The other starting point was my time in the military. When I was 18, I joined a special unit and instead of crawling around in the dirt, I managed to get into a class where I got Russian lessons for eight hours a day for four months. Then I was put in front of a huge machine with very big headphones, and I listened to the Russian troops in the GDR. We then realized that the Russians were also listening to us. On some holidays they greeted us by name! So we thought there must be a mole, somebody must have sold information or something like that must have happened. I had toyed with the idea of turning that into a comedy or thriller, and then Anna had the crucial idea to use the East German mole as the protagonist. So the idea for the series came from different sources.<\/p>\n

WS:<\/strong> What broadcasters did you approach?
\nWINGER<\/strong>: First, we took it to RTL, which was very excited about it, and to this day I am very thankful to RTL, because it was a real risk for them, because they didn\u2019t do that type of series. It was unusual for RTL, but they were very good partners and very supportive. The series wouldn\u2019t be here if it hadn\u2019t been for RTL.<\/p>\n

WS:<\/strong> You and Anna ran Deutschland 86<\/em>?
\nWINGER:<\/strong> Anna and I were the showrunners. After the writers\u2019 room, Anna did an amazing ten-week rewrite of all ten episodes. In contrast to most U.S. shows, and because of our limited resources, we needed more or less finished scripts before<\/em> we started shooting. It was tough, but she did a great job. We oversaw all the scripts together and made all the decisions about casting actors, directors, and the final cut in the editing room. But of course, the second season would not have been possible if there hadn\u2019t been this groundbreaking deal between UFA, Amazon, Fremantle and RTL that gave us the possibility to con\u00adtinue this great journey with our amazing cast and crew.<\/p>\n

WS:<\/strong> And when will the worldwide audience see it?
\nWINGER:<\/strong> Amazon has the first window in the German-speaking territories and will start the series on October 19 in Germany, Austria and Switzerland, and has later windows for international. RTL has the second window in Germany. The series will also launch on Channel 4 in the U.K., Canal+ in France, Sky in Italy and on SundanceTV and Hulu in the U.S. The U.S. audience does not have to wait long\u2014SundanceTV will premiere the ten new episodes on October 25.<\/p>\n

WS:<\/strong> Deutschland 83<\/em> was one of the shows that made Americans realize they can accept subtitles.
\nWINGER:<\/strong> Yes, and the audience grew in the U.S. It was beautiful to watch, and there was a very engaged conversation about it. Especially for German drama, Deutschland 83<\/em> has opened a lot of doors. Other German producers feel emboldened because now, with the second series, Deutschland 86<\/em>, Fremantle contributes a huge amount of financing because of the international sales. That is a model we never had. To this day, it\u2019s the only German series that is on so many different channels internationally in prime time.<\/p>\n

WS:<\/strong> Do you think of storylines that could appeal to more than one country or do you focus on the best story you can write?
\nWINGER:<\/strong> Just the best story. Anna was the head writer on Deutschland 86<\/em>. We have four writers and me, so it\u2019s a collaborative effort. In the room, we would have debates about storylines, but I have a big problem with trying to second-guess some audiences. If you are in a room with four or five people [who have different opinions and sensibilities] and you can get everybody excited about an idea, it\u2019s very likely that people out there are going to like it, too.<\/p>\n

The whole data-driven approach is somewhat flawed. It\u2019s good for some things. Data is good, for example, for marketing. Germany also used to be a culture where people had such strong assumptions about what people want and don\u2019t want without any real empirical underpinnings. This is a generalization, but I think too often people in Germany didn\u2019t trust their gut feelings and tried to come up with some rational justification for what was needed. A good story has to be contagious. You can talk about an idea and see how people react. With Deutschland 83<\/em> it was very clear from the beginning that as soon as we had the first pages, you could see it in people\u2019s eyes that it worked. In that respect, it was a really easy show, because people were attracted to it; actors, directors, everyone wanted to be part of it.<\/p>\n

WS:<\/strong> What can you tell us about Deutschland 86<\/em>?
\nWINGER:<\/strong> One headline is that in 1986 East Germany was so desperate for cash, they were basically bankrupt, that they tried to save communism by becoming hyper-capitalists\u2014you can also say mafioso capitalists. So they were trading blood, weapons, people, patients and art. Because of that, our show is going more international. It goes to South Africa with some really interesting connections but still based on real history. All the missions that Anna and I have looked into are related to this effort.<\/p>\n

WS:<\/strong> Tell us about Hackerville<\/em>.
\nWINGER:<\/strong> Hackerville<\/em> is an international co-production that I co-created with Ralph Martin, one of the writers from Deutschland 83<\/em>. He\u2019s an American living in Berlin, and he brought the idea, based on a true story. Romania had become the hot spot for hacking a while ago and the world descended on specific towns to get the hackers\u2014either to arrest them or to hire them. A good hacker is a real asset these days! And often they are very young. So Ralph went there and came back and we developed it. We wrote the story and brought it to Antony Root and Johnathan Young at HBO Europe. I\u2019ve known Johnathan since we did a SOKO Leipzig<\/em>\/The Bill<\/em> co-production ten years ago. He\u2019s a crucial bridge-builder and participant for Hackerville<\/em>. Johnathan and I are exec producing the series together. Later, TNT Serie in Germany came on board. Anke Greifeneder and Hannes Heyelmann have had quite some impact in Germany with wonderful series like 4 Blocks <\/em>and Arthur\u2019s Law<\/em>, so they fit well into the Hackerville<\/em> team.<\/p>\n

What\u2019s also really interesting, it\u2019s basically a German-Romanian story with more international implications, so it required a writers\u2019 room that had Romanian writers. There was a lot of very lively debate, because Romania is one of the most underestimated, underappreciated countries. I have come to love it. It\u2019s very interesting culturally, very energetic. They haven\u2019t had a high-end TV series yet, so I am very curious about the international reaction. It\u2019s one of those series that could put Romania on the map. There is so much talent there.<\/p>\n

WS:<\/strong> Because viewers connect with the characters, a drama can often explain important issues better than a news program.
\nWINGER:<\/strong> Yes, exactly, because they identify with the characters, and if two characters look at the same thing, they [often have different opinions about it] and then viewers [can discuss the issues]. Often the best arguments you have in the writers\u2019 room make for the best scenes. This is especially true with long-running series\u2014writers start to impersonate a certain point of view and then you can defend that position and go through all the arguments that you\u2019re never allowed to have in real life! For UFA Fiction, Hackerville<\/em> and Deutschland 86<\/em> are both outstanding models of an extraordinary and groundbreaking new way of storytelling.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

The managing director of UFA Fiction talks about Deutschland 86.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":289,"featured_media":10652,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"pmpro_default_level":0,"footnotes":""},"categories":[68],"tags":[2892,2893,1042],"class_list":["post-10651","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","","category-interviews","tag-deutschland-86","tag-jorg-winger","tag-ufa-fiction","pmpro-has-access"],"yoast_head":"\nJ\u00f6rg Winger - TVDRAMA<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/worldscreen.com\/tvdrama\/jorg-winger\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"J\u00f6rg Winger - TVDRAMA\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"The managing director of UFA Fiction talks about Deutschland 86.\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/worldscreen.com\/tvdrama\/jorg-winger\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"TVDRAMA\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2018-10-23T18:41:11+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2019-01-23T19:46:09+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/worldscreen.com\/tvdrama\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/11\/2017\/07\/Joerg_Winger-Deutschland-1018.jpg\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:width\" content=\"600\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:height\" content=\"400\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:type\" content=\"image\/jpeg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Anna Carugati\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Anna Carugati\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"9 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/worldscreen.com\/tvdrama\/jorg-winger\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/worldscreen.com\/tvdrama\/jorg-winger\/\",\"name\":\"J\u00f6rg Winger - 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