Thursday, March 28, 2024

Leslie Moonves

This interview originally appeared in the MIPCOM 2014 issue of World Screen.

Mention Leslie Moonves to just about any international television executive and not only will his name be recognized, but words like “gifted,” “brilliant” or “programming genius” will quickly be added to describe him.

Moonves, the president and CEO of CBS Corporation, is known as the man with the Midas touch for spotting and scheduling hit shows. He started his career as an actor and later took a position at Warner Bros. Television, where he eventually became president and oversaw the development of several shows, including Friends and ER. In 1995, he moved to CBS as president of entertainment and continued to rise up the ranks of the company, which at the time was part of Viacom. In 2006, Viacom split its businesses into two publicly traded companies: Viacom and CBS Corporation. Today, CBS Corporation encompasses the CBS Television Network, The CW (a partnership with Warner Bros.), CBS Global Distribution Group, the pay-TV service Showtime Networks and the publishing group Simon & Schuster.

Under Moonves’s leadership, CBS has been the most-watched network among total viewers for six years in a row and for 11 of the last 12 years. In the 2013–2014 season, CBS was not only the most-watched network among all viewers, but also number one among adults 18 to 49 and adults 25 to 54 in prime time (not including sports programming). The Big Bang Theory was the number one comedy among all viewers and among adults 18 to 49. The Millers was the number one new comedy. NCIS was the number one drama, and 60 Minutes remained the top news program.

This kind of ratings success translates to advertising revenues, but advertising is not the only income filling CBS’s coffers. Programming sales in the U.S. domestic market, internationally and to digital platforms; retransmission fees; and reverse compensation all contributed to revenues of $15.28 billion in 2013 and operating income of $3.26 billion.

Broadcast is the form of television that has been around the longest, but complacency has not been part of Moonves’s approach to the business. He and his team have, in fact, devised innovative formulas to finance shows and embraced digital platforms. For the limited series Under the Dome and Extant, CBS made deals with Amazon’s Prime Instant Video service prior to their airing, making the series profitable regardless of their ratings performances.

Moonves has always been focused on one goal—making shows people want to watch—and that seemingly simple objective continues to pay off.

WS: CBS is doing well financially. Are you looking to make any acquisitions in the U.S. or internationally?
MOONVES: There is a lot of conversation about M&A [mergers and acquisitions] and what is available. Yes, we are indeed doing very well financially, but part of that is because we have a great deal of discipline. I would venture to say we look at a lot of things, but we are reluctant to stick our neck out. Right now we feel confident that the assets we have are performing extremely well—the network, the production group, Showtime, etc.—so we are reluctant to change the mix unless we see great opportunity out there and, at the moment, there is nothing that we are dying to have.

WS: Are there any companies that would fit into your portfolio?
MOONVES: We just spun out our CBS Outdoor [billboard advertising] business and consider ourselves a content-and-distribution business primarily. Any acquisition would be opportunistic; there is nothing we are looking for to fill our portfolio. Obviously we like producing content for CBS, The CW, Showtime and our syndication group. We would like to continue expanding that if possible, but most of the expansion comes internally, as opposed to from acquiring companies.

WS: There has been a lot of consolidation in the business lately. Given 21st Century Fox’s recent bid for Time Warner, would CBS be in a better position if it were still part of Viacom and a bigger company?
MOONVES: CBS and Viacom have both performed extremely well since we split apart. The truth of the matter is that we are entirely different businesses. Viacom is a big motion-picture company and a big cable company, and CBS has a different group of assets. The stocks of both companies have performed very well over the last number of years, so there doesn’t appear to be any real need, and I don’t think it would give us any more power to be back together. I think everybody is very content to be apart.

WS: What are your goals for CBS Television Studios?
MOONVES: CBS Television Studios produces for a lot of different ventures, but obviously the CBS network is number one. So my goal is for them to continue to produce premium content, make the best shows they possibly can and maximize their revenue. They’ve done a terrific job of expanding the NCIS and CSI franchises, as well as producing what I consider to be possibly the best show on television, The Good Wife. What also impresses me about CBS Studios is the diversity of the product that they make, going all the way from syndication shows to top-notch cable programming.

WS: Is there a need at this point for CBS to produce more films?
MOONVES: We have a small feature-film company (CBS Films) that does a few movies a year. I don’t think there is any need for us to expand beyond that. We are not looking to be a competitor for the $100-million-plus movies, the Transformers or Batman or Superman movies, as good as they may be. We’re going to remain a rather small movie company. We enjoy producing content, but we don’t want to get into that rat race.

WS: Besides, look at how much feature-film talent has been coming to television.
MOONVES: That’s exactly right. I think the quality of television is at an all-time high—some would argue that the quality of television is where the real power is now, even more than in feature films.

WS: With the proposed Comcast and Time Warner Cable merger, there will be consolidation in cable distribution. In that environment, will it be more difficult for broadcast or cable networks to get fair value for their content?
MOONVES: I don’t think so. If you look at our battle with Time Warner Cable, which is now a year old, we eventually got paid appropriately for our content. I don’t think the fact that these companies are getting bigger is going to change that. As long as we do the job that we are doing, which is produce premium content and acquire the appropriate sports rights, we will be fine and we will get paid fairly. We’ve made big deals with all these companies in the past and I’m sure that will continue.

WS: I have a home in Connecticut. Last August, I was so upset I didn’t have CBS in Manhattan on Time Warner Cable that I moved to Connecticut!
MOONVES: I’m glad to hear that! And clearly Time Warner Cable was hurt more than CBS. Some would say it put them in a vulnerable spot to the point that they had to sell the company.

WS: Give us an idea of the choices that went into making this year’s CBS fall schedule, placing some of the dramas where you placed them and carving out a slot for NFL football on Thursday nights.
MOONVES: It started there. Once we had the opportunity to grab Thursday night football, that changed the whole equation. Thursday night was already a strong night for us, where we won in every demographic. The fact that we were able to add football in the beginning of the season gave us the opportunity to move The Big Bang Theory to Monday night. In addition, because the spin-off NCIS: New Orleans follows NCIS on Tuesday nights, we were able to move another strong performer, NCIS: Los Angeles, to Monday to strengthen that night. The new shows we have on the schedule, from Stalker to Scorpion to Madam Secretary to NCIS: New Orleans, are all placed in time periods where they have great lead-ins. Obviously not every new show will work. But, as we like to say, every show is in a position where it can succeed. And hopefully we will continue to build on our past track record of success.

WS: Looking at the fall schedule, the vast majority of the shows are produced by CBS Television Studios. Was that a conscious decision or did it just happen that they were pitching great shows this year?
MOONVES: Our strategy is similar to that of other networks. We buy from everybody and have a lot of shows on our schedule from Warner Bros. But revenues from the international marketplace and the SVOD marketplace [that we can generate from our own shows] have become more important in the equation of picking shows. We always say that when it’s a jump ball, when it’s 50-50 [between one of our shows and another studio’s show], we will choose our show. If an outside studio has a better show, we’ll pick that one. But clearly the strength of CBS Studios is important to us.

WS: There are people who are seeing an inevitable decline in the ratings of linear channels. Do you agree with that? And if that’s the case, how can you avoid that erosion?
MOONVES: The number of people who are watching on linear channels is still close to 75 percent of the total viewership. They are still watching shows at the time they are on. But as the world changes, we are prepared for the shifting schedule. Nielsen is becoming more sophisticated in counting time-shifted viewers and audiences on all platforms. We are fully prepared so that as more people watch a show three days or seven days after it airs, or on CBS.com, they will be counted, and that’s fine with us. As I said, the back end becomes as important as, if not more important than, the front end. And as viewers are changing their habits, it is still about having the best content and that’s all we care about. How they watch it, when they watch it, as long as it’s counted, it’s fine with us.

WS: Are you and your advertisers satisfied with the improvements being made in audience measurement?
MOONVES: There is no question that Nielsen has gotten a lot more sophisticated and a lot more accurate. I think they are working very hard to count as many different venues as they can, and that’s good for us. We’re working hand in hand with Nielsen to get to the right place, and once again, our economic models are working across the board, and we are doing quite well financially.

WS: Speaking of economic models, Extant and Under the Dome changed the way shows have traditionally been financed and sold.
MOONVES: It started a year ago with Under the Dome. Summer programming on the networks had been mainly relegated to reality shows, some of which have done very well, such as Big Brother and America’s Got Talent. But we found the model to break that pattern, whereby great international sales as well as deals with the Amazons and Netflixes of the world enabled us to put on premium quality drama in the summer and make it economically viable. After Under the Dome worked so well, we added Extant, and next year we are adding a new show called Zoo [based on a sci-fi thriller by James Patterson]. It hasn’t been CBS alone, but I think we led the way. We have added what we like to call a brand-new daypart, which is summer premium drama programming, and it now makes great financial sense to continue with that.

WS: The NCIS and CSI franchises have been expanded. How do you and your team decide when another show can be added to a franchise?
MOONVES: It’s really interesting. Both came about in different ways. NCIS is still the number one drama on television. It became self-evident that it would be a great idea to expand the franchise to another city while the original NCIS is doing phenomenally well. We have Gary Glasberg, who is the executive producer of NCIS, in charge of NCIS: New Orleans and it became a great opportunity. In the case of CSI: Cyber, it’s a very interesting story. It was an idea that was pitched to us about a particular character, and it really fit into the CSI franchise. It wasn’t our intent, per se, to look for another CSI. Instead, this idea came in and it fit perfectly for that franchise. Once again, both CSI and NCIS are selling extraordinarily well internationally and have a great deal of value, even after all these years. These are two different examples of how a franchise can expand, and we look forward to hopefully many more years of both of them.

WS: What kind of input does Armando Nuñez, the president and CEO of CBS Global Distribution Group, have when you are considering greenlighting a new series?
MOONVES: Armando has been the head of our international group for many years, and a few years ago he added domestic syndication, too. He is a very valuable part of the process. He is aware of what is in development. He looks at pilots and is consulted on everything we do, because the international and domestic marketplace both become big concerns when you are spending the kind of money you need to spend on premium drama and premium programming in general. Armando is an extremely important part of the team.

WS: Do you still prefer series with stand-alone episodes?
MOONVES: We prefer series with stand-alone episodes, and a lot of these stand-alones have some elements of a continuing story. We think it’s really important that they be stand-alones, and that has been our attitude for many years; it has served us very well. It not only helps us at the network with our ratings, but it certainly is a better model for international distribution and domestic syndication so viewers aren’t afraid that if they skip an episode [they miss crucial story lines]. Some of our shows, like The Good Wife, have a bit more serialization, but we really want to make it clear that you can tune in to a CBS show at any time and not be lost.

WS: That must help Armando, because international broadcasters can schedule shows with stand-alone episodes more easily than serialized shows.
MOONVES: That’s right, and when you compare the syndication value of the non-serialized to serialized shows, the difference is fairly huge.

WS: Do you agree that, as some people say, we are in a golden age of television for scripted drama?
MOONVES: Absolutely. Drama has never been better. There are many more channels programming drama. You have the premium-cable services—Showtime, HBO and Starz—and then basic-cable networks like FX doing terrific programming; the list goes on and on. In addition, each of the broadcast networks also has a number of dramas that they can point to where the quality is terrific. You can talk about The Good Wife on CBS, or The Blacklist on NBC, or Scandal on ABC. Every network has them.

WS: Has the drama genre evolved significantly over the years?
MOONVES: Not really. The key is still the quality of the shows. Cable has become a different animal than it used to be in that they are doing a lot more original drama. There are considerably more networks doing drama, but that makes for good competition, and I think the quality is extraordinary.

WS: How do you determine which dramas are a fit for CBS and which are more appropriate for Showtime?
MOONVES: On Showtime we can get away with a lot more [adult] language, violence and sexual content than we could on CBS. When you are a non-advertising-based premium channel, the standards are very, very different. In addition, Show­time thrives on serialized dramas, like Homeland, Ray Donovan, Masters of Sex and Shameless. These are four shows of great quality, and all deal with more adult-themed drama, violence, language and sex. It becomes fairly self-evident what belongs where; Show­time and CBS are very different organizations. I’m very proud that we have the Showtime shows, the CBS shows, The CW shows and the syndication shows, and that they are all for different audiences and all very good within their respective businesses.

About Mansha Daswani

Mansha Daswani is the editor-in-chief and associate publisher of World Screen. She can be reached on mdaswani@worldscreen.com.
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Leslie Moonves

For seven out of the last eight TV seasons, CBS has been the most-watched broadcast network in the U.S. With a string of lucrative hits, including NCIS and the hit comedy The Big Bang Theory, CBS’s programming team, led by Leslie Moonves, as president and CEO, keeps getting it right.

WS: I imagine that CBS’s stable management sends a consistent message out to the creative community of what to expect from the network.
MOONVES: That is exactly right. They know what they are getting. They know when they are developing a show at CBS that the people are going to be there to see it through to fruition. They know that the people who are championing their shows will be around and will continue to champion their shows, not only during development, but the year after and the year after that. The same sort of philosophy goes throughout our pipeline. Our distribution people have been here for a very long time, and when Armando Nuñez, Jr. [the president of CBS Studios International] goes into the marketplace to talk about our product throughout the world, they know that Armando is going to be there next year when the show is either a big hit, which has happened an awful lot of the time, or when it doesn’t work and there are other things that need to be done. And I think that gives people great comfort because they know we’ve delivered what we’ve promised them, and we will continue to deliver, and they trust us.

WS: How important are international sales?
MOONVES: They are very, very important. They were important many years ago and, frankly, the growth in the marketplace has been terrific. Even with tough economic times, both in the U.S. and, obviously, abroad, the demand for premium content remains very strong. And that’s very heartening. So the fact we’re doing the best content is very important to us. If you put on premium content the viewers will come and the advertisers will come and you can withstand [any fluctuation in the market].

Television is still the best bargain in town, because by and large it’s free, so even at a time when people maybe can’t afford to go out as much, television remains the constant, and you can’t replace premium content. So the numbers that Armando has brought in have been terrific. When we have a show that we produce, we look at it globally. We look at what we are going to get from a network, we look at what we are going to get internationally, and it enables us to produce it at the highest quality level, knowing we will get rewarded both domestically and internationally.

WS: While traditionally networks have waited until they had about 100 episodes to go into domestic syndication, you approached the market when you have had fewer episodes.
MOONVES: Last year we sold NCIS: Los Angeles domestically after six episodes had aired. They will air [on USA Network] a few years from now, but the sale took place as soon as it became apparent that the show was a hit. The marketplace was so strong, and it’s also quite different from ten years ago, when the domestic marketplace for dramas was not nearly as strong as it is today.

WS: Given the number of hits CBS has on the schedule, what has made the development process so good at the network?
MOONVES: There are a number of factors going into it. It comes down to a) the people who provide a good creative environment for our producers and writers, and b) knowledgeable people to schedule and market. It really is a team effort, and the fact that this solid group of executives has won for many years, and does it year after year, leads us to feel like [the system is working]. It’s a team effort throughout the whole process: it’s development, it’s casting, it’s finding the right people, it’s knowing who the up-and-coming good people are. And it does have something to do with the fact that we have terrific people who work well together—it makes for a good team, and success comes from that.

WS: How involved are you in any of those steps along the way?
MOONVES: I’m involved somewhat in all of them, depending on the steps, depending on the project. Nina Tassler is the president of the entertainment division of the network, Dave Stapf is the president of the CBS Television Studios. They are both terrific managers. They do show me scripts and rough cuts, and I get involved in the process, but they are the focal points.

WS: CBS has accumulated an attractive stable of online assets, from CNET to TV.com and of course CBS.com. What’s been the strategy in building that group?
MOONVES: The strategy has been how do we best maximize the content that is currently on the CBS network or Showtime, which is also one of our assets, and make it available either as full episodes or some offshoot of those shows. TV.com is also a social-media site for commenting on television shows. At the same time, with sites like CNET and the games site, we want to offer original content that frankly has nothing to do with CBS content. So overall you could say CBS is trying, as we do on our network and on Showtime, to put premium content in as many available places as people can get it, and the content can come from CBS or it can come from elsewhere as well.

WS: Is the industry at large and CBS in particular getting closer to being able to monetize content online?
MOONVES: There is no question. We are monetizing our content online. It will be important that online advertising grow, so that you get the same price per viewer as you do on air, so that an eyeball watching TV is equal to an eyeball watching online. Right now that is not the case, but there is no question that the online component is very important and will become more and more important as time goes on.

WS: Even though advertising is recovering, most everyone in the media business is looking to diversify their revenues, and if I’m correct, retransmission fees have become an important point for a broadcast network like CBS.
MOONVES: Yes, that’s absolutely true. A few years ago the retransmission fees were nonexistent. Now they are a major part of our lives and, once again, having a strong schedule (and that includes not only the entertainment shows, but sports as well) is a very important part of it. It leads the cable and satellite operators to recognize the value of having the networks and paying appropriately for them.

WS: Do you think the day will come when a network like CBS is valued at least the same if not more than a USA Network or a TNT?
MOONVES: Absolutely. I see that day in the not too distant future.

WS: You mentioned sports. CBS has found an innovative deal for NCAA basketball rights with Turner Sports.
MOONVES: Exactly, sports rights in a lot of areas have escalated to a very high number. Clearly they are very valuable. We were able to come up with a very original way to share the rights, because there are a number of games on the air, and made a very creative business deal. This helps all three parties involved: Turner as well as CBS as well as the NCAA. It took a lot of terrific effort on the part of our sports guys and the Turner guys, and everybody won.

WS: Even though the cost of rights is escalating, do sports still comprise an important portion of the schedule?
MOONVES: No question about it. Being able to have the NCAA Tournament, even if it’s in partnership, is still far, far better than having lost those rights. They are important to our identity, who we are and where we are in the future.

WS: Is it possible that other networks are paying too much for sports events?
MOONVES: I really don’t know. We are really very happy with what sports we have. We have the NFL, we have the NCAA, we have the SEC (the college football Southeastern Conference), we are the largest purveyor of golf on network television, we have the Masters Golf Tournament and we have the U.S. Open Tennis Championships. We are very pleased with the sports we have on the air and, frankly, we’re not looking to expand.

WS: People are getting their news in a variety of ways throughout the day. Obviously, broadcast news is changing. What do you see as the future of network news?
MOONVES: It’s hard to say. It’s obviously evolving. People get their news in a lot of different ways. So broadcast news has to look at itself as a place not necessarily only to deliver the news but also to give you a point of view, and by that I don’t mean a politicizing of it. I mean more of an in-depth look at events. Unlike the old days with Walter Cronkite, when Walter would be the main purveyor of news and you would rush home to get the 6:30 p.m. Evening News to get your information, today, by the time you get home you mostly know about [what happened during the day]. I think network news is about getting in-depth and getting more knowledge of what is going on in the world.

WS: Putting news events in context because we are bombarded with so much information.
MOONVES: Exactly, providing context for them. And certain news services do it with a political point of view, and that’s OK also—that’s why there are 500 channels, so there can be different points of view and different people who want to tell it from one side or the other.

WS: The 10 p.m. time slot is particularly important because it serves as a lead-in to your affiliates’ late news, which is a money generator for them.
MOONVES: Absolutely, that’s what the affiliates and the O-and-Os [CBS-owned and -operated stations] care about more than anything else—the 10 p.m. programming.

WS: So, given the strength of your 10 p.m. slot and of your prime-time schedule in general, tell me a little about CBS’s relationship with its affiliates.
MOONVES: Forty percent of our network consists of O-and-Os. We are a big part of that, and as you stated, clearly, 10 p.m. is very important because the local news is a major source of revenue to them. And the fact that we win most nights, if not all nights, Monday through Friday at 10 p.m., leads them to feel very good about their network and their relationship to us. Our affiliates are very important. A network is comprised of some 220 stations. It is important to us that they remain very healthy, and providing them with good 10 o’clock lead-ins, which helps their local news, then helps the Late Show with David Letterman, is good for the food chain that we are all part of.

WS: You mentioned that a number of your top executives have been at CBS a long time, but so have you.
MOONVES: Absolutely, I’ve been here since 1995.

WS: What have these years meant to you?
MOONVES: CBS is such a great place and there is such a great culture and I love working with the people I get to work with and the people I get to meet. I’m at my core a content guy, and I love the content we’re putting out there and I’m very happy here. I like coming to work every day. 

WS: Why is it that being a broadcaster today, despite fragmentation and competition from new media, is more important than ever?
MOONVES: Even though the landscape is much more fragmented than it was five years ago, or ten years ago, being a broadcaster still is the most powerful way to reach a mass audience. In a world of 500 channels, and not to mention the million or more websites that are available, the fact that a network like CBS can reach more people at one given time than any single one of them is very significant. The fact is the communal broadcasting model still is very effective. If advertisers want to reach a large part of the population, they realize the best and biggest bang for their dollars is still broadcast television. And that’s why even though the absolute [viewing] numbers may be smaller, the impact is larger than ever.

WS: What are some of the programming choices and scheduling decisions that have led to CBS’s success?
MOONVES: We really view our schedule as a bunch of building blocks, and it’s taken us a number of years and the blocks are pretty much in place. Our attitude has always been, be a broadcaster. We like 18-year-olds and we also like 60-year-olds. We haven’t been driven to a smaller demographic despite what some of the people out there may be saying. It is important to program broadly and for a mass audience with shows that have mass appeal. We have taken our time with a very specific development idea about that, and we do shows that fit with our audience. In addition, we’ve had a very, very stable management team. Most of the people that are involved with our programming are people who have been together 15, 20 years. That is very effective, and it’s worked really well for us. I know that the word “teamwork” is a cliché, but it really is in effect here, and there is a reason why our schedule seems to work year after year.

WS: In addition to having been the most-watched network for so many years, this season, CBS also started to make inroads into the much-coveted younger demographic. Any particular reason why that came about?
MOONVES: Once again it goes back to the consistency. Ultimately, at the end of the day, the 18-to-49 demographic is not the be-all and end-all to us, but if you put on very good programming, everybody will watch. Big hits are generally watched by everybody, so I think the fact that our schedule is packed with a number of successful shows on virtually every night of the week, that just tends to broaden our demographics out. Through the first of the year we were number one in every single demographic, and in some of them by a very large margin.

WS: You have a strategy of steadily accumulating programming assets, such as the CSI franchise, the NCIS franchise, and the list goes on. In the ’80s there were only a handful of revenue streams. In today’s media landscape, how many revenue streams are there for a hit show?
MOONVES: As proud as we are of broadcast, it’s not to say we could stand still and put our feet in the mud and just say broadcasting is all that matters. A few years back there were a limited number of revenue streams—you could put a show on a network and syndicate it internationally and a little bit domestically. But now the world has changed so much with online viewing and iTunes and cbs.com and Hulu and all the different platforms where you can put your content. So the idea is, yes, the network is still the mother lode and it’s still our focal point, but people are watching our shows all over the place on a lot of different platforms. As long as we get paid appropriately for them and it’s not hurting our main forms of revenue, we’re now getting paid 14 or 15 ways for the same piece of content.

WS: Showtime, which is also part of CBS Corporation, is doing very well and seems to have stolen HBO’s thunder lately.
MOONVES: HBO is still doing great, but I’m really proud of the job the people at Showtime have done. They have put on a number of very exciting original series and original sporting events that have really boosted Showtime, not only financially, but in the eyes of the world as a major supplier of premium content. HBO still does a good job, they still have some excellent programs, but now the good news is that Showtime is competitive in that area.

About World Screen

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